Can I just build my own MS pro?
June-12th-2002 | 12:28 PM
#17
Protege Enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 305
From: Yakima, Washington
i dont know if this is a big help but, in my old eclipse i really diddnt need the power off th line. when you are going from a dead stop due to the fact in a fwd car you will be getting a lot of wheel spin. and when you got the turbo it wont kick in untill about 3200rpm's right about then you be gaining you traction back. of course like i said earlier i didnt know if this would help my eclipse was awd and i launched at 5700rpm's when racing and still had minimal wheel spin with sticky yokahama's.
June-12th-2002 | 12:51 PM
#19
Get in my belly!!!
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 362
From: FL
Originally posted by azrakain
If Oscar Jackson would get off his *** and build us a supercharger it would fit. His roots systems have a built in manifold. Look at the supercharged SCC civic, as well as all of the Miatas and Ford Foci. OBDII refers to the computer system. Japanesse stuff won't work with our stuff. If you wanted the FSZE you could always get a stand alone such as the Haltec system. It should be able to be tuned to get FSZE horsepower outa it. You could also get the cams, much higher compression pistons and a standalone system. I am going turbo. Much more potential and a properly tuned system will perform great. Goto your bookstore and buy "Maximum Boost" by Corky Bell. Its a great insight to the potential to turbo systems and it also presents theories and installations of turbo systems. I bought it per TheMan's recommendation and its great. Thanks Edwin.
If Oscar Jackson would get off his *** and build us a supercharger it would fit. His roots systems have a built in manifold. Look at the supercharged SCC civic, as well as all of the Miatas and Ford Foci. OBDII refers to the computer system. Japanesse stuff won't work with our stuff. If you wanted the FSZE you could always get a stand alone such as the Haltec system. It should be able to be tuned to get FSZE horsepower outa it. You could also get the cams, much higher compression pistons and a standalone system. I am going turbo. Much more potential and a properly tuned system will perform great. Goto your bookstore and buy "Maximum Boost" by Corky Bell. Its a great insight to the potential to turbo systems and it also presents theories and installations of turbo systems. I bought it per TheMan's recommendation and its great. Thanks Edwin.
http://www.neuspeed.com/pages/suprch...ges/mainsc.jpg
June-12th-2002 | 12:58 PM
#20
Protege Enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 305
From: Yakima, Washington
ive never had a supercharger before but from what i hear i still think that i like turbos more. first off you can only change your boost with a pulley and second it takes to much time to do that you cant do that from the cockpit like a ebc (electronic boost controller). and also it dosent sound like you can boost that much 9lbs. back in my eclipse stock was 9psi and i ran close to 22psi. but than again the 4g63 was built for boost
June-12th-2002 | 01:39 PM
#21
Passion for Zoom Zoom!
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 372
From: San Diego, CA
If Oscar Jackson would get off his *** and build us a supercharger it would fit. His roots systems have a built in manifold. Look at the supercharged SCC civic, as well as all of the Miatas and Ford Foci.
Unfortunately, the Protege doesn't have a very enthusiastic following from the tuner's point of view. Look at this: I am organizing a California meet on the 29th of this month. Between the four Mazda dealerships here in San Diego county, about 300 Protege's are sold every month. In L.A. county, over 1,500 Protege's are sold every month. The Bay Area, probably about 400 every month. I see dozens of Protege's on the road every day during my 8 mile commute here in San Diego. I see dozens of California owners in here every day, and dozens more in other boards. How many people have responded to the meet? 16. 16 total from 5 different boards, and 2 of them are 323's! THAT'S JUST FREAKIN' SAD! Now, if I was going to sell parts, it sure wouldn't be for the Protege! As much as I love them, there isn't money there.
-Jerry
June-12th-2002 | 03:44 PM
#22
Protege Enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 453
From: Spokane WA
First off it depends on what you want out of your motor. Supercharging basically acts like driving a car with a much larger motor in it. The power is everywhere in the rpm range without any lag. Also, there is plenty of room in the engine bay for a supercharger. It will simply require either making a manifold or modifying the one we already have.
I received my Eaton M62 yesterday and was out in the shop measuring and calculating for about an hour and a half. I'll have to move the power steering lines up against the shock tower on the driver's side, but there's a ton of room to do this. The plenum of our intakes underneath the main upper intake runners is huge! Just getting rid of that alone damn near leaves enough space to bolt the blower underneath. The alternator also has to be moved lower slightly but that can be accomplished by simply making new brackets for it. Plenth of room for a drive system otherwise as it will drive off the same belt that runs the alternator and water pump.
The big draw with supercharged motors is AVERAGE power. They make almost peak torque from 2000 rpm on up without the drop off at higher rpm that our NA engines have now. I've talked to a couple places about doing this and they say to expect 180 lb/ft or so for almost the entire rpm range from only 7 psi of boost.
Jackson has told me that they are not and will not be making a kit for our cars. They might not tell us even if they were though. They said that they are too busy on other projects to even think about it right now.
I received my Eaton M62 yesterday and was out in the shop measuring and calculating for about an hour and a half. I'll have to move the power steering lines up against the shock tower on the driver's side, but there's a ton of room to do this. The plenum of our intakes underneath the main upper intake runners is huge! Just getting rid of that alone damn near leaves enough space to bolt the blower underneath. The alternator also has to be moved lower slightly but that can be accomplished by simply making new brackets for it. Plenth of room for a drive system otherwise as it will drive off the same belt that runs the alternator and water pump.
The big draw with supercharged motors is AVERAGE power. They make almost peak torque from 2000 rpm on up without the drop off at higher rpm that our NA engines have now. I've talked to a couple places about doing this and they say to expect 180 lb/ft or so for almost the entire rpm range from only 7 psi of boost.
Jackson has told me that they are not and will not be making a kit for our cars. They might not tell us even if they were though. They said that they are too busy on other projects to even think about it right now.
June-12th-2002 | 11:54 PM
#23
Jedi Master Yoda
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 528
From: Asheville NC
OH yeah BTW people MMS sells the emisions and engine wiring harness from the J-Spec FS-ZE get those and a ECU and you are in business. As far as your power delima....turbo is a good route if done right but I've been down that route and it wasn't for me. Superchargers are ok cetrifugal chargers suck on a 4 cylinder but a roots blower might work well. As far as NA you could pull 160 whp out of our cars fairly easy I think with the right things. I am goign to use a MSD programable unit for ignition to advance the timing and then a S-AFC for fuel mixture fine tuning as much as I can. The main flaw between our ecu and the FS-ZE ECU is the timing.
June-13th-2002 | 02:26 AM
#25
Passion for Zoom Zoom!
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 372
From: San Diego, CA
FYI, the Mazda Protege and Protege 5 is the third best-selling car in North America.
Code:
May 2002 North American Sales Results Honda Civic 30,731 Chevrolet Cavalier 29,542 Toyota Corolla 27,271 Ford Focus 23,289 Dodge Neon 12,903 Hyundai Elantra 11,953 Pontiac Sunfire 9,405 Nissan Sentra 9,261 Kia Spectra 8,261 Mazda Protege* 7,696 *Includes Protege sedan and Protege5
Last edited by jstand6; June-13th-2002 at 02:29 AM.
June-13th-2002 | 02:44 AM
#26
Thread Starter
Protege Enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 116
From: Sultan Wa.
Pardon my ignorance but I suppose this eaton m62 is a supercharger? If so I am very interested on how your little project turns out. Everything you described about the characteristics of a supercharger are exactly what I would want. I want power all through the rpms. None of this waiting to spool business.Keep me posted!! people keep refering to NA engines, what is this? I am sorry for all the questions but I am new to the performance thing.
Originally posted by Traveler
First off it depends on what you want out of your motor. Supercharging basically acts like driving a car with a much larger motor in it. The power is everywhere in the rpm range without any lag. Also, there is plenty of room in the engine bay for a supercharger. It will simply require either making a manifold or modifying the one we already have.
I received my Eaton M62 yesterday and was out in the shop measuring and calculating for about an hour and a half. I'll have to move the power steering lines up against the shock tower on the driver's side, but there's a ton of room to do this. The plenum of our intakes underneath the main upper intake runners is huge! Just getting rid of that alone damn near leaves enough space to bolt the blower underneath. The alternator also has to be moved lower slightly but that can be accomplished by simply making new brackets for it. Plenth of room for a drive system otherwise as it will drive off the same belt that runs the alternator and water pump.
The big draw with supercharged motors is AVERAGE power. They make almost peak torque from 2000 rpm on up without the drop off at higher rpm that our NA engines have now. I've talked to a couple places about doing this and they say to expect 180 lb/ft or so for almost the entire rpm range from only 7 psi of boost.
Jackson has told me that they are not and will not be making a kit for our cars. They might not tell us even if they were though. They said that they are too busy on other projects to even think about it right now.
First off it depends on what you want out of your motor. Supercharging basically acts like driving a car with a much larger motor in it. The power is everywhere in the rpm range without any lag. Also, there is plenty of room in the engine bay for a supercharger. It will simply require either making a manifold or modifying the one we already have.
I received my Eaton M62 yesterday and was out in the shop measuring and calculating for about an hour and a half. I'll have to move the power steering lines up against the shock tower on the driver's side, but there's a ton of room to do this. The plenum of our intakes underneath the main upper intake runners is huge! Just getting rid of that alone damn near leaves enough space to bolt the blower underneath. The alternator also has to be moved lower slightly but that can be accomplished by simply making new brackets for it. Plenth of room for a drive system otherwise as it will drive off the same belt that runs the alternator and water pump.
The big draw with supercharged motors is AVERAGE power. They make almost peak torque from 2000 rpm on up without the drop off at higher rpm that our NA engines have now. I've talked to a couple places about doing this and they say to expect 180 lb/ft or so for almost the entire rpm range from only 7 psi of boost.
Jackson has told me that they are not and will not be making a kit for our cars. They might not tell us even if they were though. They said that they are too busy on other projects to even think about it right now.
June-13th-2002 | 02:47 AM
#27
Thread Starter
Protege Enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 116
From: Sultan Wa.
Who is mms? And what would it take to get to 160whp NA ?
Originally posted by chdesign
OH yeah BTW people MMS sells the emisions and engine wiring harness from the J-Spec FS-ZE get those and a ECU and you are in business. As far as your power delima....turbo is a good route if done right but I've been down that route and it wasn't for me. Superchargers are ok cetrifugal chargers suck on a 4 cylinder but a roots blower might work well. As far as NA you could pull 160 whp out of our cars fairly easy I think with the right things. I am goign to use a MSD programable unit for ignition to advance the timing and then a S-AFC for fuel mixture fine tuning as much as I can. The main flaw between our ecu and the FS-ZE ECU is the timing.
OH yeah BTW people MMS sells the emisions and engine wiring harness from the J-Spec FS-ZE get those and a ECU and you are in business. As far as your power delima....turbo is a good route if done right but I've been down that route and it wasn't for me. Superchargers are ok cetrifugal chargers suck on a 4 cylinder but a roots blower might work well. As far as NA you could pull 160 whp out of our cars fairly easy I think with the right things. I am goign to use a MSD programable unit for ignition to advance the timing and then a S-AFC for fuel mixture fine tuning as much as I can. The main flaw between our ecu and the FS-ZE ECU is the timing.
June-13th-2002 | 10:41 PM
#29
Protege Enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 453
From: Spokane WA
Yes, The M62 is a supercharger. It's 62 cubic inches positive displacement. The one I'm going to use is off a series one supercharged Buick/Olds/Pontiac 3.8L. It has the bypass already built in, is just about perfect for size (the throttle body will be in almost exactly the same area it is now) and won't have to be spun very fast to make the kind of boost I want. This will keep the efficiency high and keep the inlet temperature down.
blowers lose efficiency the more you push them (they heat the air more for a given level of boost). If you use a slightly larger displacement blower than is strictly needed for your engine, then you can spin it a little slower to make the same level of boost as a smaller displacement blower. With the M62 I can spin it slower (it will live longer) and still be right in the meat of maximum efficiency at the boost level I want. I could probably boost this thing to 12 psi without straining but that might be a little much for our engines. Eaton makes a smaller displacement blower but it would be much higher up the efficiency scale for 7 psi and would be out of capacity much beyond that.
blowers lose efficiency the more you push them (they heat the air more for a given level of boost). If you use a slightly larger displacement blower than is strictly needed for your engine, then you can spin it a little slower to make the same level of boost as a smaller displacement blower. With the M62 I can spin it slower (it will live longer) and still be right in the meat of maximum efficiency at the boost level I want. I could probably boost this thing to 12 psi without straining but that might be a little much for our engines. Eaton makes a smaller displacement blower but it would be much higher up the efficiency scale for 7 psi and would be out of capacity much beyond that.
June-13th-2002 | 10:47 PM
#30
Passion for Zoom Zoom!
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 372
From: San Diego, CA
I don't know about your chart Jerry, I read what I said in the Mazda magazine. Just look on the street, I don't see 4 civics for every protege.
Don't see 4 Civics for every Protege? You shouldn't... It should be more like 15 Civics for every Protege. Of course, it depends where you live. Here in Southern California, Civics and Accords are everywhere you look. In my parking garage at work, there are two Protege's and 19 Civic's and 11 Accord's!
-Jerry