Maybe I did something wrong, but I personally think it is terrible. It stutters at about 3k, after that and at wide open throttle the most god awful sound comes out of the intake. It sounds like I have glasspacks on the intake. It is a very loud reverberating sound. And the power completely dies off before 6k.
Has anyone else had any of these problems? Does anyone have any ideas? Any help would be appreciated. Otherwise it is coming off and going on sale.
Thanks in advance.

 

I guess I will start all over. If I start with the cams and crank at tdc, then the timing should be ok, but what do I do about the valve lash?

 

By the way, I don't believe that it is the valves or the cam. Timing maybe. It only makes the sound when the throttle is wide open or almost wide open. I can take it to 6k while feathering the pedal, and no noise, but as soon as I put it to the floor, it sounds like a cheap redneck exhaust with glass packs.
I don't know if this will help. Thanks again.

 

Your engine's symptoms (no power at high rpm, gawdawful exhaust noise) is consistent with way too much intake cam advance. The high-rpm power problem is due to the intake valve closing too soon; the gawdawful noise is caused by excessive exhaust blowback- the intake valve is opening so soon that exhaust gas is flowing backwards into the intake manifold at WOT! Needless to say, this is not good.

The problem is easy to diagnose... your intake cam is timed wrong. Based on my experience changing the timing belt, it is VERY easy to misalign the timing belt when you re-tighten the belt tensioner. This is why the FSM recommends that you double-check it several times. I recommend checking your cam timing ASAP before the blowback screws up something in your intake system.

 

I think I am off a tooth. That is what I thought but wasn't sure. Thanks very much to both of you that have replied so far. This is another testament to the necessity of this board.

 

sorry, man, but you cannot check CAM timing with a timing light. only way to tell your cam timing is off if to check lift in relation to piston location. only way to do that is to remove the timing cover and cam cover.

 

I'd track down a timing gun before you take the engine mount off and pull the cover out, its an hour of work just to setup, and another half hour to put it all back together, a timing gun will tell you if theres a problem in 30 seconds. 'Borrow' one from Murrays as a loaner tool, I pay them a visit quite often borrowing good stuff: obd2 computer, drum brake tools, tension/torque tools, AIR TOOLS...

That ***** expensive and you only need it once or twice...

p.s. AVOID removing the cam cover & exc, you don't need to check timing that way, besides, its a pain in the *** if you end up having to reseat your valves, springs or rockers. sometimes they don't slide back on as easy as they pop off, and you need to torque the cover correctly on all bolts in sequence.

...can't spell today

 

Right, the cams are attached to the cam gears in such a way that they only go on one way. the cam gears are driven directly by the timing belt. So unless the cam gears are not aligned properly with the "I" and "E", then checking timing with a timing light is much easier.

 

ok, i am WAAYY confused as to why you think you can check the cam timing with a timing light. the timing is controlled by the ecu, right? doesn't the ecu get it's firing signal from a CRANK triggered sensor? if that's the case, the cam timing has nothing to do with that, right?

i would understand and agree if our timing was controlled with a conventional dizzy that was in some way cam driven, but it isn't.

yeah, and if you still think i don't know my crap, please explain to me (since i am a bone head) how you check the cam timing with a timing light.

 

before anyone gets into timing more (and its simplicity) i'd have this guy double and triple check his installation, make sure all bolts are torqued to spec and there is no leak in pressure anywhere. it sounds like theres a leak somewhere because when he floors it it stuters, like the rush in the intake is leaking somewhere and causing uneven or rough combustion. just an idea, some of the things i think may be far fetched but...

...if his timing were actually off a tooth wouldn't the performance SUCK across the board, not just when he gets on it. if he slowly builds up rpm like he says, and its smooth when he does it, his timing is probably fine. I think it may be something else, maybe even a restriction of air somewhere.

 

No, it wouldn't necessarily kill power at all rpm and all throttle openings. I've driven cars with incorrectly timed cams before, and in my experience, if one cam in a DOHC engine is only off by one tooth, it will frequently cause bizarre powerband changes like he described, but the engine still run OK at some rpm and the car will often still be driveable. It will generally cause one of the following situations: (1) engine will run great at high rpm but stutter and stall at low rpm, (2) engine will run great at low rpm but feel like someone pulled the handbrake at high rpm (like this guy's car), or (c) both of the above, but it will run great in the middle. It depends which cam is off and by how much.

BTW the car is stuttering because he's got exhaust blowback. This makes the MAF sensor readings go haywire, which will make most OBD-II computers go into emergency "limp" mode and dial back the ignition timing and enrich the mixture in a desperate attempt to keep the engine running. This will generally make the car run badly, but prevent it from dying completely.

 

Agreed. There is a cam position (CMP) sensor attached to one cam (I forget which one, don't have my FSM handy) but if the OTHER cam is timed wrong, checking the ignition timing won't tell you anything. Some cars have provisions to let you see the cam pulleys with the rest of the engine assembled (my brother's old Toyota was like this) so you COULD check the pulleys with a light, but that won't work on an F-series Protege engine because you can't see the pulleys without pulling the valve cover.

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.

 

wouldn't he get a check engine light? or do you think it'll take the computer a few runs to figure it out and setoff the light.

 

OK, that would make sense. Like the Miata BP and the Protege BP. Miata is a one peice valve/cam gear cover, while the Protege BP has separate valve/cam gear covers.

 

checking the timing on any computer ignition controlled car won't tell you annything about anything other than the ingition circuit works. i have never know any car, engine, whatever where you were able to check the cam timing with an ignition light. all the engines, cars i've worked on, you at least needed a degree wheel to check cam timing. and on twin cam engines, most are set-up where you need to have the chain/belt exposed.

the FS engine has a cam position sensor, and a crank position sensor. the cam position sensor is triggered off the exhaust cam gear.