Lol, yah see i guess I'll always be a mazda guy, I will say there is one honda tht I would own hands down if they ever prodcue it. A while back I read an article about a car called the Honda Dualnote. From what i read they were split on wheter to produce it or not. Well a hybrid gas/electric car with 42 MPG and 420 horsepower is awfully appealing. The car looks weird though, not in a bad way. Other than that I probably will always take a mazda of a honda hands down. Thats just me though. Peace =)

 

Okay so maybe it was 400bhp either way. http://adopt.hotbar.com/tpad.jsp?l=8008&sz=pop&rnd=3765 its deffinatly worth checking out, if you haven't seen it yet.

 

http://www.supercars.net/cars/2001@$Honda@$Dualnote%20Conceptx.html ugh stupid pop ups this is the real address. sorry

 

My comments are based on hard fact, not my personal experience. Actual data from all manufacturers in terms of repairs. There is hard data that says Protege's are just as reliable if not more so than the Civic. Power and efficiency are most certainly not the same...A Dodge Viper is most certainly powerful, while not even close to efficient...What do you mean "don't get me started on Ford " who do you think owns Mazda ? You don't think Ford has any say so in development of Mazda powertrains ?? Why do you think Ford bought Mazda ?? To make small engines of course..And do you really think Honda has even close to the commitment to performance Mazda has ?? The only thing they make that could be considered a high performance vehicle is the S2000....and like the commercials say, there is a little sports car in EVERY mazda vehicle....CRX ?? Ha!!! they aren't worth sh*t without a motor swap... HONDA never made them fast

I'll stop arguing though....I know what I know, and I've attempted educate you

 

lol amen to that. I personally really like the whole acura/honda nsx being considered a supercar by some. (yah it isnt a compact cars but its a joke) The nsx retails for what oh 90 grand or so? How much does a corvette retail for? about 40Gs and yet the corvette performs better in a slalom, and is more powerful. You can get 2 better cars for the price of one pos. interesting =P

 

lol this is funny, but I guess, I am not doubting anything you say, but I fail to see why your shoot down every Honda connection lol I don't even consider myself a honda guy lol, but is there one car that honda makes that you can find anything possitive to say about, I am trying to see where your coming from...

I never claimed CRX to be the best car in the world, its a personal like, everyone has perosnal taste I guess. but when I look at something you see what it can do, not what it can't do.

ok anyways to end my case and point about equality, both are top notch, but I reaffirm based on searching around with big mags and reviewers, that Honda does edge out in dependability/reliability. over mazda. and there is historic data of this. now I am not gonna start throwing words like fact out there... cause this is really something that can be debated both ways, but if you want market research then I would stand behind what JD Power and Assosiates says in regards to rating all brands...



J.D. Power Asia Pacific Reports:
Toyota Ranks Highest in Japan’s First Long-Term Vehicle Dependability Study


FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: September 2, 2004


The study is based on responses from 18,251 new-vehicle owners (excluding mini-cars) surveyed at 15 to 50 months into the ownership period. It identifies problems experienced during the most recent year. The study measures 147 problems divided into nine performance categories, which are scored as problems per 100 vehicles (PP100).* The nine performance categories include ride, handling, and braking; features and controls; seats; heating, ventilation, and cooling (HVAC); sound system; vehicle exterior; vehicle interior; engine; and transmission. The purpose of the study is to focus on changes in the quality of vehicles as duration of ownership and total traveled distance increase, and to establish a benchmark of vehicle dependability in the Japanese market.


Toyota

Toyota receives an overall VDS score of 89 PP100 for vehicles purchased in 2002 (15 to 26 months of ownership), 110 PP100 for vehicles purchased in 2001 (27 to 38 months of ownership), and 133 PP100 for vehicles purchased in 2000 (39 to 50 months of ownership). Toyota ranks highest among all manufacturers for all three purchase periods, with fewer problems than industry averages in all nine categories. Toyota performs particularly well in the ride, handling and braking category.

Honda

For vehicles purchased in 2002, Honda scores 91 PP100, ranking second after Toyota. Honda receives a score of 144 PP100 for vehicles purchased in 2001 and 161 PP100 for those purchased in 2000 and finishes third in each ranking, just below the industry averages. For all three purchase periods, Honda’s customers report fewer problems than industry average in the vehicle interior category.

Nissan

Nissan scores 108 PP100 for vehicles purchased in 2002 and ranks third. In the rankings for vehicles purchased in 2001 and in 2000, Nissan scores 132 PP100 and 155 PP100, respectively, performing above the industry averages in both rankings. Nissan performs well in features and controls.

Subaru

Subaru scores 122 PP100 and ranks fourth for vehicles purchased in 2002. However, Subaru ranks sixth for vehicles purchased in 2001 with a score of 177 PP100 and seventh for those purchased in 2000 with a score of 215 PP100.

Mazda

Mazda scores 130 PP100 for vehicles purchased in 2002 and ranks fifth. In the rankings for vehicles purchased in 2001 and 2000, Mazda scores 160 PP100 and 179 PP100 respectively, finishing fourth in both rankings.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

If you guys wanna continue to read more head over to their website, they are pretty good with studies

http://www.jdpower.com/awards/indust...ID=884&CatID=1


There are also more info just do a search on other years




lol But thank you Macdaddy for the education I learned alot lol


but just to correct ya on something, Ford does not own Mazda lol

Ford owns:
Aston Martin
Jaguar
Land Rover (bought from BMW)
Lincoln
Mercury
Volvo cars

But Ford only owns 33% of Mazda, but does not own it in whole, only as a majorty shareholder. Ford is more leaning heavily on the brilliant engineering of its Japanese partner. Ford Bought these shares as a smart strategic move.

Also as quoted from Forbs "Last year the Japanese firm that's controlled by Ford Motor--Ford owns 33% of Mazda--sold only 258,213 cars in the U.S. Toyota, by comparison, sold nearly 1.8 million cars (including Lexus) to American buyers in 2002."


Hey guys another great artical to read which is informative then check out http://www.forbes.com/prnewswire/fee...E_DETU004.html

but it refers to

PR Newswire
Ward's AutoWorld Announces 10 Best Engines Awards for 2005
12.21.04, 10:11 AM ET

"The Ward's 10 Best Engines for 2005: (Engine and tested vehicle) * Audi AG FSI 3.2L DOHC V-6 (Audi A6) * Audi AG 4.2L DOHC V-8 (Audi S4) * DaimlerChrysler AG 5.7L Hemi Magnum OHV V-8 (Chrysler 300C) * DaimlerChrysler AG Mercedes-Benz 3.2L DOHC I-6 CDI Turbodiesel (Mercedes E320 CDI) * Ford Motor Co. 4.6L SOHC V-8 (Ford Mustang GT) * General Motors Corp. Vortec 4.2L DOHC I-6 (Chevrolet TrailBlazer) * Honda Motor Co. Ltd. 3L SOHC V-6 IMA Hybrid (Honda Accord Hybrid) * Honda Motor Co. Ltd. Acura 3.5L SOHC V-6 (Acura RL) * Mazda Motor Corp. 1.3L Renesis rotary (Mazda RX-8) * Nissan Motor Co. Ltd. 3.5L DOHC V-6 (Infiniti G35 Coupe) Cylinder deactivation, gasoline-electric hybridization and advanced diesel technology all are represented by winners on this year's Ward's 10 Best Engines list. These systems allow engineers to develop engines that combine startling power with impressive fuel economy. "

Check out the full report


Cheers

 

those results are for all cars, and my arguement is Civic vs Protege,not Honda vs Mazda

and I never argued Honda sells more cars than Mazda

and Ford DOES own controlling interest in Mazda,and does make all corporate decisions for Mazda also...same difference...no other party can come closer to claiming ownership of Mazda.

http://www.caranddriver.com/article....&page_number=1


notice their last test the protege took first place also...notice where the civic placed....

drive a P5 and then a Civic EX..the Civic feels like a tank compared to the Protege....this is from personal experience.. I test drove 10 cars before I bought my Protege

The gap gets even wider between the current iteration of the Civic and the Mazda 3

There were SOME decent Honda's...the Prelude for example, which got the benefit of being the testing ground for any new technology in the way of performance, like vtec and 4 wheel steer systems...plus the H22 is a badass engine....The 99-00 Civic SI was quite a mean car too, as far as accelleration goes although it still couldnt compare to a Protege in handling...alas they gave up on both cars. Like I said Honda does not have the commitment to performance Mazda does...Who was the only Japanese manufacturer to win Le Mans ???

Start listing Mazda production performance cars vs Honda's...see which list gets longer

 

Who was the first compay to hit 100hp per liter???
aside from the RX-8 b/c it's a rotary, what Mazda from the factory has acheived 100hp per liter?

The S2K isn't the only Honda that is an outstanding performer...
Honda Integra Type R
Honda Civic Type R
04 Honda Accord V6
Honda NSX
The 05 Acura RL...300hp...AWD
oh...don't forget the first car to acheive 100hp per liter...the 99-00 Honda Civic Si

Sorry fellas, gotta throw some Honda love out there!!

 

Please, no one argue about the Honda Integra Type R and Honda NSX, yes they are Honda's at heart, Acura is just a badging.

 

Question,

can someone draft up, realistic upgrades for both and project which car could be tweaked to be the strongest lol, hahha
should we set a budget lol hahha just for fun.
Bring on the Aftermarket parts

NO CHEATING Rod... no Supercharging stuff lol j/k


Well performance is highly debateable, but I think in terms of reliability, I think the HOnda bloodline would help the Civic Ex? all Civics have the same core, not much changed.

 

why "besides the rx-7"?? because its a rotary disqualify it ?? B.S.

Here's "some" Mazda Performance Cars
Mazda Rx-3
Mazda 3s
Mazda Rx-7
Mazda Rx-8
Mazda Millenia S
Mazda Cosmos(3 rotor)
Mazda Miata
Mazdaspeed Miata
Mazdaspeed 6
Mazdaspeed Protege
Mazda Protege GT-R
Mazda 323 GTX
MX-6 GT
Ford Probe GT(rebadged MX-6)
Mercury Capri XR2(yep its Mazda)
MX-3 V6
Mazda 626 GT
Ford Escort GT(rebadged protege)

 

Hardly a fair fight...aftermarket on the Civic is huge,so bolt ons are cheaper and Mazda's respond better to boost, so to rule out FI is like cutting out the Protege's knees...How bout a simple Civic EX vs P5 bone stock race,lol..Oh wait we all know who wins that one... torque wins races,and hp sells cars

And as far as reliability...When I bought my car, I read Consumer Reports and Protege's reliability was best in class 10 years straight (interesting considering the protege only had a 10 year run when i bought my car 90-00)...Your logic is flawed...Just because Honda has a better record as a whole, a Civic is more reliable than a Protege ??

 

I know Mazda makes performance cars...come on now, was that what I was arguing???

As for the statement about Mazda cars taking to turbos better than Hondas??
Once again, not trying to start a war...but I have to disagree.

A MS Protege comes with 170Hp right? Bump up the boost to 15lbs and you have about 275 right?

Now if you take my car...160Hp and throw 15lbs of boost in it, I'd be really messing something up if I didn't hit 350Hp.

Sure VTEC helps, but it comes standard with my model, so it's not cheating is it??
Neither is the 10.2:1 CR

Do me a favor and tell me what you think a MS Protege would put out number wise with 28lbs of boost on a dyno. Provided it was set up for it.

 

Yeah Mazda makes performace cars. Have you actually tried to race a hooked up MS Protege. Show me that video.

 

wow, lol, you're going to try to throw 15lbs of boost on a car with 10.2 CR ??? Not wothout a serios buildup and one hell of a programmable ecu.Where the hell do you think 15lbs automatically means 275hp ?? A MS protege is hardly a standard example of a Mazda turbo car...it was a MP3 with a turbo thrown on it and a couple of ECU mods,you can barely call it factory. I'll race your honda all day in my MX-6, and I guarantee my stock internals and tranny without any buildup will hold more boost and not break...got a lot to learn about FI there big guy