P5 vs Grand Prix
February-18th-2003 | 10:34 PM
#31
Use this to install stuff
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,069
From: State College, PA
This entire thread is about a Grand Prix vs. a P5. A Grand Prix is not a fast car, and neither is a protege. You said the guy with the Vette couldn't drive, so he drives a very fast car poorly, resulting in getting beat by a Pontiac Grand Prix...
I am not trying to say that your other car sucked, only that if a Grand Prix sprints around a 15.9 1/4 mile, it is not too far out of a decent P5 driver's league
I am not trying to say that your other car sucked, only that if a Grand Prix sprints around a 15.9 1/4 mile, it is not too far out of a decent P5 driver's league
February-19th-2003 | 03:13 PM
#33
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 381
From: Des Moines, IA
WARNING: Long post
Wow, I thought this thread died.
Back when my only mods were a smaller supercharger pulley and an intake (similar to Short Ram), my wife raced a C5 on the street. After getting smoked off the line and unable to catch up, they were embarrassed and quickly turned off. A Jeep tried to keep up with them. . . once they caught up they gave her a big thumbs-up. Whenever I run C5s in the 1/4 (since I don't race on the street), I take them the first half and then they start to catch up and occasionally pass.
Back to GP vs. P5. . . I own both and thoroughly enjoy both. They are completely different cars, hence no need to compare the two. No need to bash either. I usually try not to bash other vehicles. Personally, I prefer to try to obtain an understanding of what enthusiasts of those other vehicles enjoy about their rides.
On that note, I'll go into length on the things I appreciate in the Grand Prix.
Styling - the #1 reason I bought my Grand Prix. Its muscular lines are reminisant of late 60's muscle cars.
Engine - For several years in a row, the GM supercharged series II 3.8L was listed on Ward's 10 best engines list. It’s ancient, but highly effective. The 240HP is nice, but the torque (280 ft-lbs) is what makes it stand out. Ample torque is available right where you spend most of your time. With only a pulley swap, intake, and cat-back I was able to pull a 13.8 in the 1/4. How cool is that? For just $2500 (retail price) in bolt-on parts you can easily get it into the 12s.
Features - trip computer, Heads-up display, intermittent wipers, heated seat, 6-way power seat, and auto-dimmer rear-view mirror. Just some of the features I enjoy. Although, I wish the dual climate control was available at the time I purchased mine.
Believe it or not, the Grand Prix is targeted for the over 40 crowd. Hence the cushy suspension. It's also a rather large mid-sized car. Consequently, it's weight is another factor affecting it's handling ability. How many mid-sized vehicles under $30,000 handle better? The chassis is sound. At the time of the current gen's release, it was one of the stiffest chassis in its class. Since several police stations have Chevy Impalas and the Impala is a W-body, heftier sway bars are available at a fairly low price, <$80. For a mere $8, strut tower braces from the Buick Regal can easily be mounted in the front and rear. Finally, GM Performance parts now have a spring/strut package. The G-Force, concept vehicle for the 2004 model year was able to pull .9 G's on the skid pad. The main difference between the G-Force's suspension and the production vehicle is the rubber mounted on 19" wheels. Yes, the suspension is sloppy. . . it was designed that way. For a few $ it is easily fixed.
The online community is pretty cool, too. There is a national annual gathering and there are several region clubs. Several people from the online community created businesses catering to our needs in order to overcome the problem with the lack of aftermarket parts. Now there's even a company that specializes in reprogramming PCM's for the Grand Prix, Digital Horsepower (DHP). Hypertech, JET, Superchip. . . no one would touch us, at least the Protegé community has JET already working for them. A guy that got together with others from the message board and figured out how to reprogram our computers founded DHP.
Back when my only mods were a smaller supercharger pulley and an intake (similar to Short Ram), my wife raced a C5 on the street. After getting smoked off the line and unable to catch up, they were embarrassed and quickly turned off. A Jeep tried to keep up with them. . . once they caught up they gave her a big thumbs-up. Whenever I run C5s in the 1/4 (since I don't race on the street), I take them the first half and then they start to catch up and occasionally pass.
Back to GP vs. P5. . . I own both and thoroughly enjoy both. They are completely different cars, hence no need to compare the two. No need to bash either. I usually try not to bash other vehicles. Personally, I prefer to try to obtain an understanding of what enthusiasts of those other vehicles enjoy about their rides.
On that note, I'll go into length on the things I appreciate in the Grand Prix.
Styling - the #1 reason I bought my Grand Prix. Its muscular lines are reminisant of late 60's muscle cars.
Engine - For several years in a row, the GM supercharged series II 3.8L was listed on Ward's 10 best engines list. It’s ancient, but highly effective. The 240HP is nice, but the torque (280 ft-lbs) is what makes it stand out. Ample torque is available right where you spend most of your time. With only a pulley swap, intake, and cat-back I was able to pull a 13.8 in the 1/4. How cool is that? For just $2500 (retail price) in bolt-on parts you can easily get it into the 12s.
Features - trip computer, Heads-up display, intermittent wipers, heated seat, 6-way power seat, and auto-dimmer rear-view mirror. Just some of the features I enjoy. Although, I wish the dual climate control was available at the time I purchased mine.
Believe it or not, the Grand Prix is targeted for the over 40 crowd. Hence the cushy suspension. It's also a rather large mid-sized car. Consequently, it's weight is another factor affecting it's handling ability. How many mid-sized vehicles under $30,000 handle better? The chassis is sound. At the time of the current gen's release, it was one of the stiffest chassis in its class. Since several police stations have Chevy Impalas and the Impala is a W-body, heftier sway bars are available at a fairly low price, <$80. For a mere $8, strut tower braces from the Buick Regal can easily be mounted in the front and rear. Finally, GM Performance parts now have a spring/strut package. The G-Force, concept vehicle for the 2004 model year was able to pull .9 G's on the skid pad. The main difference between the G-Force's suspension and the production vehicle is the rubber mounted on 19" wheels. Yes, the suspension is sloppy. . . it was designed that way. For a few $ it is easily fixed.
The online community is pretty cool, too. There is a national annual gathering and there are several region clubs. Several people from the online community created businesses catering to our needs in order to overcome the problem with the lack of aftermarket parts. Now there's even a company that specializes in reprogramming PCM's for the Grand Prix, Digital Horsepower (DHP). Hypertech, JET, Superchip. . . no one would touch us, at least the Protegé community has JET already working for them. A guy that got together with others from the message board and figured out how to reprogram our computers founded DHP.
February-24th-2003 | 05:23 PM
#36
**Punani Lover**
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,861
From: Hawaii (duh!)
dude, my old 93gp would've kicked many a p5's @ss, but how often did i ever race a straight strip...? (hardly ever) but around my town there are lots of windy roads and my p5 (which i used my gp as a trade in for) will kill (KILL) ANY gp...
but i don't race anymore, so all the above is just useless info.
but i don't race anymore, so all the above is just useless info.
March-21st-2003 | 01:02 AM
#37
Protege Newbie
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 21
man, i got an 03 ProES stick and a 99 Grand Prix GT. not only would the prix destroy the pro in the twisties and straightaways, but that thing's got a reliable-*** engine! after 50,000 miles, its still goin strong. dont yall bust on those pushrods cuz they're a lot better than anything mazda makes....except the rotaries.
now if we were talking build quality...well thats a different story...
now if we were talking build quality...well thats a different story...
March-21st-2003 | 02:10 AM
#38
Use this to install stuff
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,069
From: State College, PA
Oh my god man what is wrong with you...
A Grand Prix that has 50,000 miles and is still going strong is excellent for Pontiac. A Protege that is still going strong at 50,000 miles is expected...Get back to us on this assesment at 150,000 miles. You obviously are very knowledgeble about Mazda's engines too, so I believe you that when GM designed a brigade of mediocre pushrod OHV engine's a couple of decades ago, they would hold competition with some of Japan's most reliable economy and mid-sized car engines years later...
I will not argue with you about the handling of a 99 Pontiac Grand Prix. That would be beating a dead horse as this thread has been for the better part of this year...
A Grand Prix that has 50,000 miles and is still going strong is excellent for Pontiac. A Protege that is still going strong at 50,000 miles is expected...Get back to us on this assesment at 150,000 miles. You obviously are very knowledgeble about Mazda's engines too, so I believe you that when GM designed a brigade of mediocre pushrod OHV engine's a couple of decades ago, they would hold competition with some of Japan's most reliable economy and mid-sized car engines years later...
I will not argue with you about the handling of a 99 Pontiac Grand Prix. That would be beating a dead horse as this thread has been for the better part of this year...
Last edited by Installshield; March-21st-2003 at 02:17 AM.
March-22nd-2003 | 01:20 AM
#39
Protege Newbie
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 21
yeah i know 50k miles isnt much to get excited about in terms of reliability but i mean the whole car has made no probs...except that retarded *** cd player....
but anyways, im impressed by how well that pushrod hauls the 3800 pound car! and chew on this, the damn thing generates 225 lbs/ft torque!! thats more than any japanese V6 made in '99. furthermore, it gets good mileage! FROM A 3.8L engine! if you want proof that it is a great engine, check out wards.com...they've had it on their 10 best engines before.
as for mazda, well they did awesome with the handling, but the engine is reliable...thats the only praise i can give it. and its got some nice torque output too!! so wat the hell happened? why can a VTEC whomp it?!? cuz its old technology...
mazda's gettin right now with the 6's inline 4 engine...now if only i could pop that in my car...
but anyways, im impressed by how well that pushrod hauls the 3800 pound car! and chew on this, the damn thing generates 225 lbs/ft torque!! thats more than any japanese V6 made in '99. furthermore, it gets good mileage! FROM A 3.8L engine! if you want proof that it is a great engine, check out wards.com...they've had it on their 10 best engines before.
as for mazda, well they did awesome with the handling, but the engine is reliable...thats the only praise i can give it. and its got some nice torque output too!! so wat the hell happened? why can a VTEC whomp it?!? cuz its old technology...
mazda's gettin right now with the 6's inline 4 engine...now if only i could pop that in my car...
March-22nd-2003 | 10:43 AM
#40
Protegéphile
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,037
From: Washington, DC
Originally posted by eek4ever
and chew on this, the damn thing generates 225 lbs/ft torque!! thats more than any japanese V6 made in '99.
and chew on this, the damn thing generates 225 lbs/ft torque!! thats more than any japanese V6 made in '99.
99 Mitsubishi Diamante - 3.5 V6 - 230 lb/ft
99 Mitsubishi Montero - 3.5 V6 - 228 lb/ft
99 Acura SLX - 3.5 V6 - 230 lb/ft
99 Honda Odyssey - 3.5 V6 - 229 lb/ft
99 Mazda B4000 - 4.0 V6 - 225 lb/ft
March-24th-2003 | 12:45 AM
#42
Use this to install stuff
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,069
From: State College, PA
Originally posted by nate0123
You ready for it?
99 Mitsubishi Diamante - 3.5 V6 - 230 lb/ft
99 Mitsubishi Montero - 3.5 V6 - 228 lb/ft
99 Acura SLX - 3.5 V6 - 230 lb/ft
99 Honda Odyssey - 3.5 V6 - 229 lb/ft
99 Mazda B4000 - 4.0 V6 - 225 lb/ft
You ready for it?
99 Mitsubishi Diamante - 3.5 V6 - 230 lb/ft
99 Mitsubishi Montero - 3.5 V6 - 228 lb/ft
99 Acura SLX - 3.5 V6 - 230 lb/ft
99 Honda Odyssey - 3.5 V6 - 229 lb/ft
99 Mazda B4000 - 4.0 V6 - 225 lb/ft
I think Nissan still made Fairlady Z's (not sure, but I think) in '99
3.0L v6 - 283lb/ft turbo -228 lb/ft N/A...(as of 1996)
March-26th-2003 | 03:49 AM
#43
Protege Newbie
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 21
dude, my point is its got a lot of torque at its price. i got mine for 22k...was a diamante, montero (shitty cars btw), NSX 22k?! speaking of the NSX, what a load of **** that is. why the hell would u pay 90k for an acura instead of getting 2 M3s or a freaking viper or something. i really dont like acura or lexus for that matter....lexus rips off the germans in design and acura is conservative as crap!
oh and back to the grand prix, man the new GTP is so freaking awesome!!! finally, pontiac fixed up the interior and that TAPshift is supposed to be damn good.
but, whatever, this is a protege forum and i love my protege...still wish i coulda gotten that yellow SE-R Spec V for looks but love my ES anyways. now i just gotta concentrate on makin some money and gettin some mods! im really hungry for some extra oomph cuz i can only get excited about handing for so long...
oh and back to the grand prix, man the new GTP is so freaking awesome!!! finally, pontiac fixed up the interior and that TAPshift is supposed to be damn good.
but, whatever, this is a protege forum and i love my protege...still wish i coulda gotten that yellow SE-R Spec V for looks but love my ES anyways. now i just gotta concentrate on makin some money and gettin some mods! im really hungry for some extra oomph cuz i can only get excited about handing for so long...
March-26th-2003 | 01:29 PM
#44
Use this to install stuff
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,069
From: State College, PA
Originally posted by eek4ever
speaking of the NSX, what a load of **** that is.
oh and back to the grand prix, man the new GTP is so freaking awesome!!!
speaking of the NSX, what a load of **** that is.
oh and back to the grand prix, man the new GTP is so freaking awesome!!!
Why would anyone buy one of the best handling supercars in the world? I never understood that...
NO stock M3 can match an NSX's mid-engined balance...And for the record, the E46 M3's do have 30 or so hp more, but they both accelerate with nearly identical numbers...
I through in the Grand prix thing because it is funny...
Last edited by Installshield; March-26th-2003 at 01:35 PM.
