HAHAHAHAHA.....ok, im sorry, that was the best post put in this thread. I have kept reading it all along, it is nice to see me and my "toolness" or "retardedness" keep being brought up even though i am not posting.

Yes, for all those that wonder, I DO drive a protege.

2002 Protege ES/GT
- Custom cataback exaust with high performance muffler and 4' tip
- Razo carbon fibre racing pedals
- JVC flip down deck(no idea on the model number)
- Rockford Fosgate FNQ Component Speakers(100watt RMS BABY!...currently sitting under my bed whilst i save for the amp to power them...seeing as deck power doesnt work with those bad boys)
- K&N Filter(doesnt do ****)
- 10' red neon lights under the dash on either side(rice rice baby)


I have been driving it for 7 months now, well, for 5 months. The last 2 months it has been in the shop seeing as i was in an accident that did over $10,000CDN damage to it. Good to know my insurance agency will avoid the write off as much as they can !

And the thread continues.......

 

american quality vs japaness quality

84 Toyota Celica 178,000 miles
88 Toyota Corrolla GT-S 150,000 miles
79 Mazda GLC 136,000 miles

no problems in any of them
all but the celica are running (I spun a bearing in the celica myself)

94 Dodge Intrepid 76,000 miles
and a new tranny+brakes+tie rods (twice)+A/C+electrical
Never so glad to get rid of a car in my life
car has such low mileage because it spent most of its time broke in the garage

'nough said
Dodge quality

 

I'm no mechanic, and admittedly an idiot when it comes to these things. But due to the Mustang having a V8, doesn't it have quite a few more moving parts? eg. nearly twice as many as ours? I would certainly have to say that would be a reliability problem. It's just more things that could go wrong. On top of that, Corvettes, and Camero's are also V8's, am I right? I'm not dissing larger engines at all, don't get me wrong. But in theory, it would diminish reliability at least somewhat wouldn't it? Me and my family have owned many Ford products including Mustangs (two, actually... 80's 5.0's) an early 90's Ford Ranger, a '95 Ford Escort, a Bronco (I think, may have been an old Explorer), and a 2000 Ford Ranger. The worst problem yet has been with the newest Ranger. The 2nd gear was slipping and had to be fixed. We got a loaner car, and it was repaired in 1 week. I think it would also be wrong to dis Ford directly, as the Protege originally was an Escort, and to this day seems to be a souped up Escort. Even if everything is developed by Mazda. In terms of Mazda's, there's been a 323, an MX-3 and now the Protege. All of those cars I've been around, and driven quite frequently. None of the Mazda's have had any problems at all to date, and the 323 was put through abuse unimaginable and held up very well. It was even driven into a ditch, stolen etc. Getting to an ending here, I've always liked the Mustang a lot, it's pretty close in styling as the RX-7, although the 7 would do circles around it on the track and to the point of Mustang owners being arrogant, a lot of drivers are arrogant. I was driving a 2001 Mustang and some girl in a Cavalier was swerving through cars. I guess she got behind me thinking I would go fast (I'm already going 10 over) and she has the nerve to ride up on me, and then shove closely between cars passing and nearly hitting me. Of course I provoked it by pressing in the brakes a little bit. Anyways, just my miniature life story. Now that I've put you all to sleep...

P.S. Of course, I personally made it my mission to follow her quite closely for a few miles

 

The addional moving parts in a V8 versus a 4 or 6-cylinder engine are negligible - if it works, it works - pretty plain and simple.

I don't really know why people knock Camaros and Corvettes - maybe not the newest ones, but if you look at track records for engines, the Chevy small-block 350 is one of the most widely used and respected engines. Even the current LS1 Corvette motor is still derived from the same pushrod 350 V8 made 30 or more years ago.

Certain US makers have built real winners - the Chevy 350 is one. Another great example is the 4.0L straight 6 used in Jeep vehciles forever - these motors are workhorses that will easily go 300,000 miles with proper maintenance.

Overall though, Japanese vehicles have better build quality. While some US products are built very well, the percentage of Japanese cars with the same quality and longevity seems higher. It's no wonder that most US manufacturers that have reliable 4-cylinder engines have them built by Japanese makers.

Funny - it almost follows the stereotypes of the cultures; Americans are all about "bigger is better" and horsepower, while Japanese "culture" seems less frivolous and flashy - why do it "big" when "small" works fine? For big-cube horsepower, American is the only way to go - we do it well. But for efficient, small engines, the Japanese have the game won.

It all depends on what you are looking for from a vehicle, IMO.

 

I've also heard of among the worst reliability problems with Jeeps. But my theory goes like this...

There's many more parts I'm missing here, but this is just a simplified example.

We have 10 V4 Protege's... that's 40 cylinders total
We have 10 V8 Mustangs... that's 80 cylinders total

In manufacturing there is a rate of problematic parts. It's a reality that nothing is perfect and machines even make things slightly differently each time. With that in mind, we have 80 parts on the Mustangs that could potentially be one of those little timebombs the machines made. Where the Protege would only have 40. This would obviously make at least *some* difference in reliability. Am I crazy for thinking up this theory, or does it have any substance here?

P.S. For the record, I'd absolutely love to own one of the new 390hp 4.7L V8 SVT Cobra Mustangs... and I'd probably drop the Protege in a heartbeat for one (not that I dislike the Protege at all, either). But that's comparing apples to oranges...

 

Sorry, as I said I'm not a mechanic... Inline, V... same difference to me :x. Probably why I'm making such a strong connection then, as I did do a bit of work to that Escort ('95 as I said) regarding the stereo and a large portion of the way the interior is made in this Protege is *very* similar. The doorhandles are even remarkably identical, for example (minus the silver colouring).

Also, for your amusement: http://www.mazda.com.au/articleZone....icleZoneID=904

 

Bloodroses, I would say you are partially correct. Obviously if a vehicle has more moving or stressed parts, it has a higher probability of failure. BUT, I believe automotive manufacturing, especially w/ CNC tooling, has a very high consistency. Reliability in these cases comes down to material selection and treatment, and more importantly design. The engineering of the vehicle is the single most important factor in determining the reliability.

The other sticklers would be the QA/QC of the manufacturer, and in my experience, anything coming from Japan or Germany (england and italy are not bad either) has had excellent manufacturing practices imposed on it.

Just my 3 cents.

 

Depends on the model of Jeep. The Grand Cherokee has a bad reliability record - they use V8 and V6 engines. The new Liberty is not getting much praise either, also the V6.

The Cherokee (classic, Sport, etc - the boxy one) has been using the same 4.0L Inline 6 for literally decades - it's reliability is outstanding. The Wrangler also has the straight 6 as a an option, and it, too has excellent reliability. The problem with Wranglers is usually the way they are treated by owners, so the resale is tough. Many people who own the DO off-road them at least sometimes, and many don't take care of them afterwards (washing, get the grit out of them, get any salt water off the chassis, etc).

My lady owns a '98 Cherokee Sport. While I'm not a "truck" guy, I dig her Jeep - it's a beast in 4WD, and the 6 pulls strong. She bought it from a car dealer who is a long-time family friend - she wanted a Wrangler, but he said finding one that he'd be comfortable selling to her would be tough, because in his years of Jeep experience, they are the most abused trade-ins.

I think that when buying any car, track records speak volumes - if the maker has been using the same basic formula for a long time, chances are it works well, and the bugs have been worked out. I only bought my Protege5 because I knew that it was a solid platform that Mazda has been using for many years.