For Your Info - Dot Matrix LCD decks
December-29th-2001 | 01:47 AM
#1
Thread Starter
Protege Enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 113
From: Sudbury, Canada
For Your Info - Dot Matrix LCD decks
just letting anyone who is looking into a dot matrix or larger deck that i've had problems with mine.
i explained the problem awhile back, but no one really had any advice or reasons related to the problems i was having. my deck was over-heating (panasonic cq-df801u)
the face would loose all detail, and eventually shut the whole deck off. the installer pulled his hair out trying to figure out the reason, and re-wired the deck a billion times to try and correct it. after ruling out the power source as the problem, we've concluded that the heat vent located right behind the deck is causing the over-heating. it also explains why this only happened occasionaly in the summer time. i've now been told to visit my dealer to see if mazda can help with this, and that compact cars run in to retarded problems like this because they are so small.
somthing to think about...
i explained the problem awhile back, but no one really had any advice or reasons related to the problems i was having. my deck was over-heating (panasonic cq-df801u)
the face would loose all detail, and eventually shut the whole deck off. the installer pulled his hair out trying to figure out the reason, and re-wired the deck a billion times to try and correct it. after ruling out the power source as the problem, we've concluded that the heat vent located right behind the deck is causing the over-heating. it also explains why this only happened occasionaly in the summer time. i've now been told to visit my dealer to see if mazda can help with this, and that compact cars run in to retarded problems like this because they are so small.
somthing to think about...
December-29th-2001 | 09:14 AM
#2
Protege Owner
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 731
hmm... poor circulation, that would make sense I guess.
Does the car have the same pocket as the newer ones below the HU (i.e. was the original HU a double DIN)? I have considered swapping the pocket location and the HU location (as they are both spaces of the same size) to give the HU a little more room at the back so that it has a little more convection back there.
Just a thought.
Does the car have the same pocket as the newer ones below the HU (i.e. was the original HU a double DIN)? I have considered swapping the pocket location and the HU location (as they are both spaces of the same size) to give the HU a little more room at the back so that it has a little more convection back there.
Just a thought.
December-29th-2001 | 11:46 AM
#3
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 2,367
From: Huntington Beach, CA Uhhh Surfs up Dude
might be a good time to think about getting an amplifier, this will negate the use of the radios amplifier, greatly reducing the heat off the unit, thus solving the problem and giving you better sound too boot 
Or you can have the installer rig a small computer cooling fan, i would have it activate with the radios amp remote turn on lead, but also have it connected to a switch, so in the summer, you can shut it off, or whenever it's not needed.
I installed a new alpine deck in a M3 for my neighbor on the 24th and it required that the radio power come straight from the battery...as it had a 20amp fuse and labeled, HIGH CURRENT. The deck said 60wx4 (
) so i guess i can validate it's need for more current...but c'mon, the radio opening in most dash boards are simply slots....with that much current, the deck will overheat itself....although if your heater went out, it could get you by
Or you can have the installer rig a small computer cooling fan, i would have it activate with the radios amp remote turn on lead, but also have it connected to a switch, so in the summer, you can shut it off, or whenever it's not needed.
I installed a new alpine deck in a M3 for my neighbor on the 24th and it required that the radio power come straight from the battery...as it had a 20amp fuse and labeled, HIGH CURRENT. The deck said 60wx4 (
) so i guess i can validate it's need for more current...but c'mon, the radio opening in most dash boards are simply slots....with that much current, the deck will overheat itself....although if your heater went out, it could get you by
January-2nd-2002 | 12:31 PM
#4
Thread Starter
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Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 113
From: Sudbury, Canada
aaaaaahhhahh
nice optimism...
i probably could heat the damn car with the deck.
appreciate irony?
deck overheats cause its too hot, alarm doesn't work cause its too cold...
can't please everything.
i have an amp, but i'm only powering the subs with it.
deck, rear and door speakers are being powered by the battery.
i'll probably throw in another amp in the spring, and we'll test out your theory.
the installer is so damn sick of my car, he's just telling me to goto mazda and get them to fix the circulation. doesn't seem to want to look at other options and/or solutions.
as for "switching the pocket location"...that sounds a bit difficult and permanent.
i'm limited since i'm leasing my proto and not keeping it.
less to put back the better...
besides, maybe i'll screw compact and go for a hummer.
nice optimism...
i probably could heat the damn car with the deck.
appreciate irony?
deck overheats cause its too hot, alarm doesn't work cause its too cold...
can't please everything.
i have an amp, but i'm only powering the subs with it.
deck, rear and door speakers are being powered by the battery.
i'll probably throw in another amp in the spring, and we'll test out your theory.
the installer is so damn sick of my car, he's just telling me to goto mazda and get them to fix the circulation. doesn't seem to want to look at other options and/or solutions.
as for "switching the pocket location"...that sounds a bit difficult and permanent.
i'm limited since i'm leasing my proto and not keeping it.
less to put back the better...
besides, maybe i'll screw compact and go for a hummer.
January-2nd-2002 | 03:23 PM
#5
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 2,367
From: Huntington Beach, CA Uhhh Surfs up Dude
Wait a sec!!!!!!!! i just found your problem!!!
you say the front doors, rear doors AND rear deck speakers are being power by the Panasonic??????????
well thats why it's over heating, it's being fed 2 ohms on 2 channels, probably the rear.... it dosen't like 2 ohms. You will not have to _test_ my theory you NEED another amp. Although 2 of the Panasonic's channels will still need to be used 
if you want total and full control, if not, the rear speakers can be paralelled and powered by a 2 ohm stable amp just fine. (the fronts would run at 4 ohms)
ummmm i'd like a hummer too
(sorry just couldn't resit, the door was wide open
)
you say the front doors, rear doors AND rear deck speakers are being power by the Panasonic??????????
well thats why it's over heating, it's being fed 2 ohms on 2 channels, probably the rear.... it dosen't like 2 ohms. You will not have to _test_ my theory
you NEED another amp. Although 2 of the Panasonic's channels will still need to be used if you want total and full control, if not, the rear speakers can be paralelled and powered by a 2 ohm stable amp just fine. (the fronts would run at 4 ohms)ummmm i'd like a hummer too
(sorry just couldn't resit, the door was wide open
)
January-2nd-2002 | 04:06 PM
#6
Thread Starter
Protege Enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 113
From: Sudbury, Canada
alright mr moderator
break that down into lamens terms, since you've got me all excited now.
i need another amp why exactly?
and am i powering too much with the deck?
blah blah blah
and a hummer you will get for the rest of the winter season if you can explain the "unexplainable"
duh duh duh dunnnnnn
break that down into lamens terms, since you've got me all excited now.
i need another amp why exactly?
and am i powering too much with the deck?
blah blah blah
and a hummer you will get for the rest of the winter season if you can explain the "unexplainable"
duh duh duh dunnnnnn
January-2nd-2002 | 05:39 PM
#7
Protege Owner
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 731
what Mazdaspeed is saying is:
You have six speakers currently being run of the 4 channel head unit... front door, rear doors, and rear deck.
what this means is that you likely have the following setup:
- left front channel: one speaker, left front door
- right front channel: one speaker, right front door
- left rear channel: two speakers, left rear door and left deck
- right rear channel: two speakers, right rear door and right deck
So if that is the way that it is set up.... the rear speakers are likely wired in a parallel configuration. Which then means that each rear channel is actually driving into a 2ohm load.
Now, small amplifiers (like the ones in most, if not all, headunits) are not really all that comfortable driving a 2ohm impedance. In order to get the same power delivered to the speakers they are going to have to sink a lot more current than if they had been driving a 4ohm load (standard car audio speaker). In turn, this means that the amplifier is going to get a lot hotter.
OK... now if all that holds true... how does adding an amplifier make any difference?
A good two channel amp for the back speakers of the car would be able to drive the 2ohm load without much issue and thus the head unit would not have to sink the current (and dissipate the additional heat). Of course this means that you need to run cabling for the amp, but since you already have one back there another one might not be horrible.
There are a lot of other possible amplifier based ways of wiring it which would alleviate the load on the HU... I am sure others will be happy to point some of those out.
Hopefully this helps a little in why you might be powering too much from the head unit.
You have six speakers currently being run of the 4 channel head unit... front door, rear doors, and rear deck.
what this means is that you likely have the following setup:
- left front channel: one speaker, left front door
- right front channel: one speaker, right front door
- left rear channel: two speakers, left rear door and left deck
- right rear channel: two speakers, right rear door and right deck
So if that is the way that it is set up.... the rear speakers are likely wired in a parallel configuration. Which then means that each rear channel is actually driving into a 2ohm load.
Now, small amplifiers (like the ones in most, if not all, headunits) are not really all that comfortable driving a 2ohm impedance. In order to get the same power delivered to the speakers they are going to have to sink a lot more current than if they had been driving a 4ohm load (standard car audio speaker). In turn, this means that the amplifier is going to get a lot hotter.
OK... now if all that holds true... how does adding an amplifier make any difference?
A good two channel amp for the back speakers of the car would be able to drive the 2ohm load without much issue and thus the head unit would not have to sink the current (and dissipate the additional heat). Of course this means that you need to run cabling for the amp, but since you already have one back there another one might not be horrible.
There are a lot of other possible amplifier based ways of wiring it which would alleviate the load on the HU... I am sure others will be happy to point some of those out.
Hopefully this helps a little in why you might be powering too much from the head unit.
January-3rd-2002 | 02:10 PM
#8
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 2,367
From: Huntington Beach, CA Uhhh Surfs up Dude
while all that is exactly true...STAY AWAY FROM MY HUMMER i'm working here, can't you see i've got her all excited now!!!!!!!
(sorry again, just couldn't resist...this is all good fun, not tryin to be an *******
)
Yes, the Panasonic is being asked too much of it. While it may stay alive for a few months, it will eventually fizzle out. As you may have noticed (3rd one did you say?)
Why do you need another amp?.....to solve this problem you've been having (not to mention a drop kick to the pants of your installer)
impedence: impedence is measured in ohms, by using a multimeter to measure from the connection points of the speaker. a typical car audio speaker is rated at 4ohms. By connecting 2 or more speakers together, it changes the impedence depending on how they are connected together. going pos>pos> and neg>neg this is called "paralell", this will drop the impedence lower. So the 4ohm load now becomes a 2ohm load. By going pos>neg and pos>neg, this is called "series" and the 4 ohm load becomes an 8ohm load.
By adding an amp (or 2) you no longer use the amp inside the radio, thus no more heat. You only use the RCA hook-ups at the rear of the radio run back to the amp(s).
amp options:
1. retain current set up and just add one 4 channel amp
this will not give total control, as the rear doors and rear deck speakers would be connected in paralell. so left rear door and left rear deck speakers become one, same thing for the rear right side. the fronts would be independant as would be the sub. A 4channel amp can be had a good price, but a 5channel amp is not that much more and will give you total control.
2. remove current amp from subs, add to rear door speakers, add one 5channel amp to control the reast.
a 5channel amp has 4 regular channels + one mono channel to power a sub. It's usually slightly larger than a regular 4channel amp. by adding the 5 channel amp and moving your current amp around, you will have total control of the system (fade, balance, crossover, gain) each speaker will have a dedicated amp channel, running at 4ohms will keep it happy and cool, and you haven't ditched any equipment, just moving it around and it's only one amp to buy. Well, i guess that depends on if the installer used heavy gauge power cable. By adding another amp, you will have to have a 4 gauge power cable run up to the battery.
Personally, the 5 channel amp setup is the way i'd go.
If your still confused, email me privately and i can send you a small diagram of what i'm talking about.
i'm working here, can't you see i've got her all excited now!!!!!!!(sorry again, just couldn't resist...this is all good fun, not tryin to be an *******
)Yes, the Panasonic is being asked too much of it. While it may stay alive for a few months, it will eventually fizzle out. As you may have noticed (3rd one did you say?)
Why do you need another amp?.....to solve this problem you've been having
(not to mention a drop kick to the pants of your installer)impedence: impedence is measured in ohms, by using a multimeter to measure from the connection points of the speaker. a typical car audio speaker is rated at 4ohms. By connecting 2 or more speakers together, it changes the impedence depending on how they are connected together. going pos>pos> and neg>neg this is called "paralell", this will drop the impedence lower. So the 4ohm load now becomes a 2ohm load. By going pos>neg and pos>neg, this is called "series" and the 4 ohm load becomes an 8ohm load.
By adding an amp (or 2) you no longer use the amp inside the radio, thus no more heat. You only use the RCA hook-ups at the rear of the radio run back to the amp(s).
amp options:
1. retain current set up and just add one 4 channel amp
this will not give total control, as the rear doors and rear deck speakers would be connected in paralell. so left rear door and left rear deck speakers become one, same thing for the rear right side. the fronts would be independant as would be the sub. A 4channel amp can be had a good price, but a 5channel amp is not that much more and will give you total control.
2. remove current amp from subs, add to rear door speakers, add one 5channel amp to control the reast.
a 5channel amp has 4 regular channels + one mono channel to power a sub. It's usually slightly larger than a regular 4channel amp. by adding the 5 channel amp and moving your current amp around, you will have total control of the system (fade, balance, crossover, gain) each speaker will have a dedicated amp channel, running at 4ohms will keep it happy and cool, and you haven't ditched any equipment, just moving it around and it's only one amp to buy. Well, i guess that depends on if the installer used heavy gauge power cable. By adding another amp, you will have to have a 4 gauge power cable run up to the battery.
Personally, the 5 channel amp setup is the way i'd go.
If your still confused, email me privately and i can send you a small diagram of what i'm talking about.
January-3rd-2002 | 11:09 PM
#9
Protege Owner
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 731
Originally posted by mazdaspeedwest
while all that is exactly true...STAY AWAY FROM MY HUMMER i'm working here, can't you see i've got her all excited now!!!!!!!
(sorry again, just couldn't resist...this is all good fun, not tryin to be an ******* )
<snip>
impedence: impedence is measured in ohms, by using a multimeter to measure from the connection points of the speaker.
<snip>
while all that is exactly true...STAY AWAY FROM MY HUMMER
i'm working here, can't you see i've got her all excited now!!!!!!!(sorry again, just couldn't resist...this is all good fun, not tryin to be an *******
)<snip>
impedence: impedence is measured in ohms, by using a multimeter to measure from the connection points of the speaker.
<snip>
now... for what I really wanted to respond to. Please be careful when talking about impedances. A speaker's impedance can not necessarily be measured with a multimeter.... why? because a generic multimeter can usually only measure resistance.
Resistance is just one component of impedance. The other component is reactance. Resistance is the portion of the impedance that is due to the loosy components (i.e. a resistor), whilst reactance is due to the storage and release of charge in a circuit (inductance and capacitance).
Ahh... crap... the EE in my is rearing it's ugly head... I think I'll stop now...
January-4th-2002 | 02:00 PM
#10
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 2,367
From: Huntington Beach, CA Uhhh Surfs up Dude
very true and speaker impedence fluctuates anyway..so it's never a solid 2ohms or 4 ohms or whatever, but rash_girl wanted it in lamens terms and i felt that would be chineese to her
but hey man, feel free to bring out the EE in you....knowledge is power.
but hey man, feel free to bring out the EE in you....knowledge is power.
January-7th-2002 | 09:58 PM
#11
Thread Starter
Protege Enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 113
From: Sudbury, Canada
aww
you do care...
here i was feeling all rejected, and i just didn't get notified that you guys posted..
i'll actually comprehend (try to) what you said tomorrow
i'm seeing double..
i can't wait till i'm old enough to retire and become an alcoholic.
does it matter if i have seperate tweets too?
as an after thought...
what a friggin mess...
p.s. this hummer business is all your fault
p.s.s. how about a BIG diagram...i like 'em big
you do care...
here i was feeling all rejected, and i just didn't get notified that you guys posted..
i'll actually comprehend (try to) what you said tomorrow
i'm seeing double..
i can't wait till i'm old enough to retire and become an alcoholic.
does it matter if i have seperate tweets too?
as an after thought...
what a friggin mess...
p.s. this hummer business is all your fault
p.s.s. how about a BIG diagram...i like 'em big
January-8th-2002 | 11:12 PM
#13
Protege Owner
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 731
Originally posted by rash_girl
does it matter if i have seperate tweets too?
as an after thought...
does it matter if i have seperate tweets too?
as an after thought...
January-9th-2002 | 02:09 AM
#14
Thread Starter
Protege Enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 113
From: Sudbury, Canada
all right
so the amp i have now is a 2 channel, which is powering only the subs...
now if we go with mazdaspeedwest's suggestion of the 5 channel amp, can i power both subs, rear and front door speakers with that?
or can i buy another small 2-channel amp and parallel the front and rear speakers AND keep the subs with the amp they're on now?
if the tweeters aren't pulling all that much current, would i keep the deck powering them? or use an amp?
questions questions questions...will they never cease
so the amp i have now is a 2 channel, which is powering only the subs...
now if we go with mazdaspeedwest's suggestion of the 5 channel amp, can i power both subs, rear and front door speakers with that?
or can i buy another small 2-channel amp and parallel the front and rear speakers AND keep the subs with the amp they're on now?
if the tweeters aren't pulling all that much current, would i keep the deck powering them? or use an amp?
questions questions questions...will they never cease
January-9th-2002 | 04:51 AM
#15
Protege Newbie
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 38
It would be better to get another amp and leave it separate from your subs, if you have decent subs. If you got a multi-channel amp, you could be underpowering your subs (depending on what kind they are & RMS), plus powerful ones get expensive. If you don't mind having two amps in your car, then that would be the better option in my opinion.