Short form: over 11 hp and 7 ft/lbs at the wheels by swapping our stock exhaust for a 2.25" Thermal. Both cats were retained. This is on our turbo car.

http://www.fmprotege.com/tech/dyno.asp

Keith

 

Wow, that's like a huge increase! Like 10% or something? Well, maybe not that much, but certainly alot! Great work keith, thanks for keeping us up to date!

 

Thermal was already working on the 2.25" system, so we had them send us one. We're trying to convince them to build a 2.5" or 3" system (if the latter will fit - it'll be tight) and were also talking to another builder today. Since the 2.25" is what we had sitting around, we put it on.

Thermal makes good stuff - we're not interested in big exhausts with poor quality. Besides, we need parts for the NA folks out there too! We're going to be carrying the 2.25 system.

Keith

 

I'm no expert here, but I think it would be advantageous of you to test it with a 2.5" and a 3". Seems like it wouldn't be too hard (or expensive) to have one of each bent up for testing. Thermal (or any other company), might be more inclined to design a larger system if you can show some dyno results from it.

Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems that if there's power there, you might as well get it.

 

I am impressed. That is some serious torque! Damn you...I was all content being slow but now I am thinking of going turbo. Oh if I only had the $$.

 

I said we were going to get some. We just don't have them yet. So in the meantime, we tested what we have.

Thermal has dealt with us for some time and they know we can sell the turbo exhausts - the problem is more along the lines of their production capacity from what I can understand. Our main exhaust maker is already too tapped out to handle the Protegé systems as well as our Miata ones.

Give us time. While we wait, we will continue to investigate what we can.

Keith

 

Keith,
I have a question maybe you can clarify. I bought 2 O2 sensors from FM a week ago I have them now can you verify that the wiring is as follows
whites = heater
black= signal
grey = signal ground
If you can help me out on this I would be grateful

 

Anyone else notice the hp differences from the MP3 and P5 in the stock form from the ecu dyno runs?

I quote "The MP3 is rated at 140 hp, 10 hp more than the P5." yet the MP3 puts out a solid 110hp at the wheels, and the P5 puts down 96.4hp at the wheels, same engine, tranny yet we (P5 folks) lose an extra 5.6hp to the wheels if the 130 P5 140 MP3 numbers are to be believed from mazda.

Maybe FM just got a weak P5, maybe there is a different reason.

Stocker.

 

you cannot compare two different cars like that. you have to look at the dyno from the mp3 with the different ecu's. with the stock mp3 ecu it put down 110.4hp, and with the pro5 ecu it put down 107.8hp. so really, the ecu is only giving it an extra 3hp. however, it looks like the ecu gives it a little stronger pull up top, and smoother pull down low.

 

But if there are no differences between the two cars in terms of drive train why aren't P5's putting down 107's routinely? I have seen dynos on this board of P5's with intake and exhaust that don't put that type of hp down.

The only thing I came up with was the P5 was completely new when they did the dyno, and I think the MP3 has a MS muffler (but I doubt that is worth any hp). I think someone once said the MP3 had a higher flow airfilter but I believe that was proved to be incorrect.
I guess the question is if the MP3 ecu really only gives 3hp, where does the extra 7 come from? And why aren't P5's putting down solid 7 hp gains with similar mods?

Stocker.

 

Yes, our P5 was only 500 miles old when it hit the dyno. The MP3 we tested had 14,000. It's quite plausible that you'd pick up 5 hp when the engine loosens up. Between the ECU and the exhaust system, the dyno numbers do work. We've seen good results from free-flowing exhaust systems on the Miata as well. By the way, that MP3 we tested was bone stock. RB muffler.

Craig, if you've got a direct question that you need answered, it's usually safer to send an email. There's no guarantee I'll check the forum if we get busy while I'll always check mail. But yes, that's the correct wiring.

Keith

 

Well, I guess if you tack on 5 for break in that brings you to 100 at the wheels for a P5, plus 3 for the ecu, that still leaves about 7 for the addition of a RB muffler. But heck, close enough I won't quibble.
Excellent job on the turbo kit, looks very good. Do you have any EGT measurements from the P5? I am just curious what kind of heat the engine is producing while boosted.

Stocker.

 

More instruments are going in. We're planning on installing an EGT when we have the manifold off next, and we're also going to put in an IC in/out gauge so we can judge the effectiveness of the IC. It's getting heatsoaked with consecutive dyno runs (ie, 30 seconds apart) but that's not a big surprise.

Keith

 

Oh Keith you're killing me here! 191 ft lbs at the wheels at 6 PSI? DROOL! Keep up the good work! Are you guys still running the stock clutch? If so, I am suprised it's holding up...

 

One possibility is that as far as I know the P5 is ULEV compliant, while the MP3 is not. I think there are differecences with cat placement and with the VTCS system (I think thats the correct spelling) in the intake manifold the P5 has for ULEV compliance.

Thats info I've gleaned from other members of this forum, somebody correct me if Im wrong.

Carlos