First off, why do you think 4 speed automtic Camaro Z28s are only about 0.2-0.3s slower than the 6 speed manual ones? Simple, because the bigger your engine is, less of a difference there's gonna be between auto and manual. Most auto V6s are around a half second slower than their manual version. As for 4 bangers, their lack of torque can make them well over a second slower with an automatic tranmission. I'm surprised you didn't know that...plus you're putting too much emphasis on the 3 speed automatic thing, with a V6, there's very little difference performance wise with a 3 speed or a 4 speed.

I don't care what you think, a 3 speed auto Z24 can easily run 16.5 with a good launch without wheelspin. I've seen lots of timeslips on V6z24.com and on j-body.org to back that up. Read this thread, this guy has a stock 3 speed auto, and he didn't even do any weight reduction like ricers do. (removing jack, spare tire, passenger seat...) . The whole 2700 lbs + driver was there. This guy ran 16.52 with heavy chrome rims and the added weight of some audio equipment. Oh yeah, did I mention his engine is stock?

http://www.v6z24.com/messageboard/viewtopic.php?t=2578

Maybe your friend just stomped on the gas and thought spinning his wheels would help ...I tried to be nice here but what it comes down to, is that I don't care what an igonorant pretoge 5 owner thinks. I'm done here, because I'm obviously wasting my time.

 

The 3spd auto is not that bad, the shifts aren't that bad (atleast not with the TCC unplugged), we do have shift kits available. The 3rd gen Z24 auto (4spd) runs .1-.4secs slower than the 5M counterpart.

Maybe i have a factory freak, i dunno. I have raced 3.1 5M's and haven't lost by much (of course this is street racing), i will hopefully be getting to Cayuga to run the 1/4 mile next month.

I don't see how a car that weighs more, has less torque and less HP will beat an auto Z24..... even with a 20% drivetrain loss on the 3spd auto Z24 it's still over 110HP to the wheels (quick off the top of my head math says 112hp)

and i always thought the 2.8's were 125hp........

Misnblu if you're still around, doesn't Dave Z from Jon's message board own a Pro5?

but arguing is pointless and will accomplish nothing, i don't know how Shanes car could be a freak (only because of the shape he bought it in), but hey never know.

ANyways, yeah i'm with Misn' on this whole thing......

thanks for the stay and see ya's at the track or on the road

 

(quote) and he didn't even do any weight reduction like ricers do. (removing jack, spare tire, passenger seat...) . (quote)
This is what I do when I go to the track, so now Im a ricer??
Tell that to the guys running pro stock with no interior.
Its no different than running nitrous either.
That statement hurt.

(quote) I am not bashing cavaliers, but I do feel that the 3 speed auto transaxle severly limits that z24. With 3 gears you have extremely long gearing. (quote)
This statement is correct. Gearing plays big time in drag racing and the closer you can get from one gear to another, the faster you will be. The only exception to this will be the 2 speed Powerglide tranny.

(quote) Misnblu if you're still around, doesn't Dave Z from Jon's message board own a Pro5? (quote)
No he doesnt, but Im not 100 percent sure. I do know he traded his Neon for another car. Hes got an s10 p/u and the Rs cavalier.

As far as freak engines, Im referring to the build quality of the engine itself. Some engines have tighter tolerances and some looser. The tighter ones seem to have more power than the others and have heard of a lot of these.

Im gone again, just thought Id leave another reply to straighten things out or just give my views.
Misnblu

 

info...

the oldsmobile quad 4 engine was 2.3 liters, not 2.4
it also did have 3 incarnations:

standard quad4: grand am: 160hp
Quad4 H.O. : '91 grand am SE, Beretta GTZ(90-93) :180hp
Quad4 H.O. "W41" : 442, Achieva SCX : 190hp

I had a '91 GTZ for a few years, and had W41 cams. (air filter, exhuast, etc.) Dunno if anyone has ever driven a quad4 but let me tell you they are damn fast. never dynoed or ran 1/4, but had to be running 15 flat or just under. miss that car...

by the way there are still 2 crate W41's if anyone wants one.
www.mantapart.com

 

oh and as i remember hearing somewhere... the 2.4liter in the last z24s was a derivative of the Quad4 H.O. (190hp) now wtf is up with that.... they should put a REAL H.O. in there.

 

just my input, it's like comparing apples and oranges, but my 94 protege lx won't out run a 2000 chevy cavalier z24 with intake and exhaust
peace

 

???? Get your facts straight. The Spec has 175hp at the Flywheel and 145 whp and its a 2.5l 4cyl.

 

Since nobody actually bothered to find out the facts, for the past 2 model years (2002 and 2003), the Cavalier has not been available with the 2.4 liter Quad4 DOHC 150hp engine. And yes it is a Quad4. It is boldly molded into the engine cover. If you also notice, the Z24 disapperared for 2003. There is no sense having an option package that does nothing significant for the vehicle if they all have the same engine. It has now been replaced with the 2.2 liter Ecotec 140hp@5600rpm and 150ft-lbs@4000. That is also now shared with the new Saturn Ion, and form the basis for the turbocharged engines in the new Saab 9-3 where it makes between 175 and 210 horsepower (depending on trim level) When the Cavalier drivers figure this out (maybe they won't - they did buy a Cavalier), we will be looking at their tailights.
My best friends wife has a 2001 Z24 hampered by an automatic transmission, and I can smoke him in my 03 Pro ES. I have even done it this week.

 

Heres a comparo from Mazdausa.com with The ES and Cavalier LS Sport.

http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/vehi...parison.action

 

The Cavalier name will be dropped when the replacement is out in 05. It will be called the Cobalt and the performance model will be the Cobalt SS. It will share plateforms and engines with the Saturn ION.

 

and the gear ratio's on the 6-speed are a joke...

 

Its the same 6spd as the new Tibby uses too. I didn't buy a SpecV with the 6spd because the trannies are blowing up. I would have not a clue what the gear ratios are for the 6spd.

 

I don't know if you guys know this or not but chevy's front wheel drive drag car had the 2.2 in it and the internals were stock running with over 900 hp on that motor. I'm talking about the orange one with the white flames, i don't know what they're doing with the new cavalier they're running, i know they're running the 2.2 ecotec though. I'm not a big fan of the cavaliers either but come on you have to admit that chevy did a good job on that motor if they can run 900 hp on stock internals. What the drag team did was put as much boost as the motor could take without blowing which was around 25 lbs IIRC then started adding nitrous. I think thats what they were saying.... i'm not sure, but i do remember them saying on stock internals so the re-builds would be cheaper and that they would always be able to get parts in quick notice.

 

I didn't know the V6 GT tiburon used the Nissan 6-speed, but it was simply a marketing gimmick on Nissan's part for the Spec V. Everyone and their dentist is throwing a 6-sp in new sport compacts so Nissan joined in...But for some reason they married a nice long kansas flat torque curve with ratio's allowing about 52mph in second gear (one reason why Spec V's rarely best 7.4sec to 60...2 shifts)...The 2.5L's torque would be much better off with taller gearing, but with the current box you get useless quick little snaps of acceleration...That overall don't add up to excellent acceleration...Something that the engine's 100mm stroke and excellent low end grunt could make...

 

I hear the 5spd is better at accelerating than the 6spd. I have a SE-R with an auto and its ok but the 5spd is a lot better at handling the shifts. I thought the SE-R SPECV was 1 of the 1st Sport Compacts to have a 6spd?